List Summary Dec. 2,3, 1999

Subjects that appeared in this stage:

1. with relationship the installation of a nuclear power plant, would we need right uranium? But in Mars he/she does have uranium or would we need to take of the Earth?

2. a simple question: cannot he/she/it use the termoeletric energy somehow? After all, volcanos, for the that I read, are things that don't lack in Mars... besides, some larger ones than the largest ones than they exist in the Earth.

3. I think doesn't have to have money (in the colony in Mars). Now, and trade?

4. and how much the punishments? In a colony of 100 people, each member is important. We cannot be arresting anyone.

5. besides the system of lenses of Thiago to melt the water, would not it be advantageous to use the microwaves, how did Pinda say, starting from electricity (does so much make the way like ...solar, nuclear, eólic it be generated...), for the days in what the sun not to help a lot?

6. would the people of Mars have different professions influence in its rights or in its duties how a Martian citizen? Taking into account, also, what most (or good part) of the laws they will be organized for there even?

7. how that the personnel will produce its food? Them... will they be herbivore? Creating its hortinha... there carnivorous ...ou... creating... its flock... in a meek vidinha and pacata? Do I think non né? Do I think should have been eating industrialized ...e as they will produce that? Industries.. or will they take of the Earth?

8. is not money had.. how that each if he/she wants an utensil... of the other... will it rob... or to change... as it was... in I begin it of the civilization? And do everybody work to sustain the colony... do you think won't still generate more conflict?

9. are the volcanos in Mars still in activity?

10. Is it even alone in the poles that has water? When what will the ship of the NASA confirm? That would be very useful for us.

11. Do I think with relationship to order energy... did he/she see microwaves ...será that she would arrive there with the same intensity?

12. How knots will we take the weather vanes for there? In the ship or will the people build there? That size will be?

Answers of some referring subjects to the first report

1. Eskimo: on the Eskimo, inside of the iglus, I heard to speak that the temperature gets to be very high (around 25 - 30 degrees).

2. the atmosphere of Mars is basically CO2. But there are some gases frozen in the soil, if I don't make a mistake.

Fontes of energy - discussions, researches and reflections

- Solar energy:

1. other problem of the panels solares is the frequent storms of sand in Mars. Same not being as strong as the terrestrial ones, they leave the atmosphere very it dirties, and little light would pass for the photo-electric cells.

2. solar: cells fotovoltáicas (the ones that convert irradiation p / electric energy) done of silício, more abundant one of the material ones, even so the installation is a little face. º A possible solution of light lack for the production of energy, would be the construction of concave mirrors (as it is done in the deserts) where more irradiation exists, for the condensation of the light, that cannot focar so much water, air, or any thing that is necessary esquentar'

3. for the that I saw, when we are with strong sun, a solar cell of 10x10 cm can generate 10 watts, if the sun this lowers or hidden by clouds, that obtaining drops for the half, now, to have 3,2 Gw, converting 3.200.000 watts if the sun is " good ": 3.200.000 / 10 = 320.000 cells solares. If the sun is not good: 640.000 cellular solares each cell occupies 1 m² = 640.000 X 1 = 640.000 m².

4. an usina that exists in the Desert of Mojave, in Califórina produces about 35o megawats. That is half than a medium nuclear usina can produce. However, that potential could be increased if they used cells fotovoltáicas that trasformam the energy received directly in electric energy. He/she only has a small problem, him kilowatt-hour generated by the cells fotovoltáicas they leave about 30 dollars I/you had been the maintenance costs and obtaining of the same ones. More is important to remind that they don't bring any risk for the colonists' life.

5. was I thinking a little difficult ...Será to reconcile an electric usina what it captures solar energy (how are some wanting) and a colony in the pole of Mars (how are others wanting)? Because in the poles a long period of total darkness exists (since I suppose to be the pole of Mars the same to the of the Earth). Therefore the location of the colony (which is it goes) won't it please Greek and troianos, and will it be necessary to review solar energy the best option it is.

- Hydrogen

1. with relationship to the Hydrogen, a " Fuel Cell " of Hydrogen can generate it ties 3 MW.

- Nuclear energy:

1. nuclear Usina as the one of Angra I = 626MW. Construction of the usina of Angra = 1,2 billion dollars. Besides its installation to be extremely expensive, the nuclear usina lasts on the average just 25 years.

2. according to my researches, the nuclear usinas works in the following way: there is the nuclear reactor, that obligatorily needs to be immerged in water by two reasons. The first is for not to warm up too much and to begin a reaction in chain. Monday is to protect everything in turn against the radiation. That water, that finishes turning radioactive for being in contact with the reactor, it is inside of a pipe. It leaves of that pipe it is used to heat up the water that will move the generator. As the pipe must it is done the radiotividade of a resistant material, the water of the generator is not contaminated. Another part of the pipe has to be caught a cold, to avoid superaquecimento of the reactor (in angra I, the serpentine catches a cold in the sea). That that to say that has a great amount of water that becomes radioactive. In case it drains a little bit of water of that pipe, besides contaminating the area, it is capable to overheat the reactor and we will have a BOMB, and not a nuclear usina. (as it happened in Chernobyl). Good, I don't know which is the potential in Joules of a nuclear usina, but I think would not be enough. As the produced energy, the Uranium 235 (the isotope used in the nuclear usinas) it produces 2,5 million times more energy than the same amount of coal. 1 ton of Uranium 235 produces 1,5GW for 1,5 years. Therefore, making a lot of bills, he/she would have q to take plenty of Uranium to tolerate at least 10 years.

3. that site has good arguments against and in favor of the nuclear energy...
http://www.cannon.net/~gonyeau/nuclear/index.htm

4. the nuclear usina, that I am not sure, but for the that I read, she generates energy to 25 kV, but that is a little uncertain.

5. I think the idea of the nuclear energy should be discarded... as everybody they are saying there is a serious of risks that you/they will have to be run if such it be implanted in marte...

- Energy eólica

1. energy eólica has condition of producing 10% of the total energy of Brazil, taking in consideration that the air is much rarefied than in Mars, even so the winds are not so fast.

2. the nuclear energy.... everything well... most than they speak it can be even... myth ...mas the risk exists... and we cannot run such... to point... of we lost the whole work if the usina goes for the airs... I think one of the alternatives would be the energy eólica!!

- Energy geotérmica

1. energy geotérmica is already very used: 30% of EL Salvador's total energy, 15% of Philippines: installation cost not so expensive.

- Microwaves

1. really, microwaves could be an exit! But, to generate them, it would be precise another source of energy (electricity or gas). with relationship to transport them, I know that their intensity can be enlarged, if we induce to the, by means of facilities. The problem is that, besides the construction of those facilities they be difficult and, probably very expensive (they will be free in the universe) most of that energy would be dispersed in the middle of the road, since she is only reflected in metallic objects. Unless there was a middle of condensing it, but, mine to see, the ideal would be if we could obtain energy of same Mars...

2. I was thinking better and I saw that that system of production of energy in the Earth and shipping for microwaves would face the same problem of the telecommunications, the difference of rotation of the planets. What turns it impossible.

- Coalition energy

1. the coalition would be the best a little possible of getting a lot of energy and energy cleans. But, with the current technology it is not still possible, at least not in a controlled way.

2. agent already discovered that to melt 100ton of ice needs 3,2GW. But 1ton of ice for each person and a lot of water. If we could burn 1ton of ice a day we would spend 32MW. Adding with the energy to maintain the colony (temperature, computers, it shines, etc..)... kicking very low.... we should spend + / - about 100MW... I Find q we would need 30 Usinas of Hydrogen for this...

Novelties in the organization of the colony

The. Location of the colony:

1. what such if we divide the colony in two parts? A close one to the pole and other close one to the equator. Thus, the one that is close to the equator it can take advantage of the solar energy and the one that is close to the pole it cannot besides taking advantage of the solar energy, to obtain water.

B. THE economic subject

1. I still defend the communism in the colony. Everything is of everybody, and everybody should work to sustain the whole colony. Each one would be an engagement of a no-so-big system. The idea of I trade it could generate conflicts among the colonists.

2. money I don't find so important. As they are alone 100 people and the colony is independent of the rest of the world, I think could make a type of a communism, where each colonist receives a daily share of groceries (water, food, electricity,...). they would not have Like this social differences...

3. legal not to have money! But, as I trade him, difficultly, it can be developed without him, mine to see we could banish it of the colony ...Tirar the profit objective it would be an important step to avoid divergences and even monopolies. That could cart in escâmbios (to change ' he/she grazes alimentícia' for underwears) and ' guerrinhas' to see ' who has the product more essencial'. mine to see, all the consumption types should be organized and distributed equally. It would not be a thing very difficult of doing with only 100 people...

4. I am against the trade, because first it is not known if it is possible the subsistence, the more the surpluses. He/she doesn't have room there for capitalism in Mars.

C. The laws

1. I think the laws should be made... for people here in the Earth... and placed in the colonists' head... those then would not have any work of you make them ...só of executing them...

2. that the problem is... don't the people that make the laws here in the Earth have nor idea why type of situations will the colonists pass in Mars, then, as to foresee the one what can it happen? And did the colonists disagree here of the laws maids? Most of them would have involved political interests, thing that it won't happen there...

3. I agree with the fact that the laws should be made in Mars. But they have to be sketched at least in the Earth. So that not if " marterrize " (=aterrizar) in Mars in state of Anarchy...

4. on the laws, I find q before they go to Mars the colonists they could meet here with more people in the earth to discuss the laws, because all the colonists should be in agreement with the laws..

5. I think the laws should be discussed and done after they are already there, because the atmosphere will be very different from the one of here, then it is a little difficult to do laws based on imagination. Mine to see, it would be convenient to the colonists to do a previous organization in the Earth, like c they were already in Mars, in short period, for they have notion of as it will be the coexistence among them, establishing the necessary basic laws. The details (that will be difficult of being reminded in the Earth) they could be discussed there same, because they will have a more notion ' realista' than they are passing and of the rules that should be proceeded.

D. The means of transportation

1. Teletransporte an alternative could really be, but, mine to see, would it be more ' foot in the chão' if we just counted today with the available technology ...Mesmo supposing that the teletransportar REALLY arrived an atom, we cannot assure that would be capable of teletransportar 100 people possible ...É to have some forecasts based on the one what it already happened with the progress of the technology (and does it come happening), but is it going that in 2030 they didn't still get to do that? How that we are??

2. with relationship to the transport, I think should have something type teletransporte. The cientists already got teletransportar, if I don't make a mistake, an electron. It is right that still lacks a lot for teletransportar a to be but even so it would be a good middle of going of the earth the marte or of a point of the colony the other...

3. cientists got, by means of a crystal to divide a PHOTON in 2. after they divided in 2, they noticed that everything that you/they did with the PHOTON number 1, happened exactly with the photon I number 2. the distance that those two fotons was didn't matter. That would be a I begin of the I begin of the teletransporte. And the cientists didn't get to explain the phenomenon, I think are very far away from teletransportar somebody for some place.

E. The atmospheric conditions and the temperature in Mars

1. for the way the solution will be to combine whole those forms of energy. But I still think even if we don't want to colonize the whole planet, we will have to place CFC´s in the atmosphere. Did way give we will have an ideal atmosphere for plants (in the soil there are compositions frozen nitrogenados, and is there a lot, almost 100% of CO2 in the atmosphere now). even so we would need a vial, because there is not as breathing CO2 (or is there?). But would we increase like this enough the temperature of the planet to survive and to create plants that don't necessarily need to be inside of the vial.

F. THE political subject

1. he/she was thinking. In my opinion us, here in the Earth, we don't have conditions of deciding those things. Socialism, capitalism, fundamentalismo is an inheritance of the terrestrial characteristics, that will totally be in Mars. Had it never worked properly a capitalism said, because where this the proletariat and where would they work? Nor a communism properly said (that in my opinion that is the closest system of the Martian reality that we have here in the earth). we will Have to invent a government system that, as well as in the Earth, it is based on regional characteristics. The difference is that now the characteristics are Martian and as we don't know what it can happen there, we only can determine government's system, I trade, money and other things when arriving there.

G - The people colonizadoras of Mars

1. the one that I suggest that is we think of the inhabitants of the colony as people born there, and I don't eat welded espartanos (as Airton says) that were only trained for that.

2. in my opinion, #NENHUM #human being would tolerate the conditions of the colony, for best than they went, for the rest of the life. Unless that to be was born there. As well as the dog of Pavlov he/she salivated when hearing the bell, those children would be conditioned the conditions of the colony. That can be considered anti-ethical, because the child didn't ask to be born in marte. But she didn't also ask to be born in the earth!
I find legal we create a new race. Oh ET's would really exist. It would be interesting to do a different people!!!

3. the people that were prepared from the childhood will be more generating of the colony than other thing. The only people that can adapt 100% to the atmosphere of the colony are children born there

H - THE feeding

1. I suggest a food that gathers all the necessary nutrients. That is to say, a human ration. It is much easier of carrying, to store and etc and such.

General evaluation of the process

Being compared the first report with the second, we observed larger amount of information lifted by the students, larger critical analysis on the part of the same ones (mainly with relationship to the sources of energy and the general organization of the colony), and I increase in the imaginary relative to the future, specifically in the transport part.

It exists in the group a significant concern with relationship to the aspect JUSTICE in the colony. Many aim to be important that all the 100 humans in Mars should Have access to the same goods and rights, and that the colony should be autonomous with relationship to the Earth (laws, general organization...).

However, it should be observed that exist many information without the due research sources (sites, books, magazines...), fact waited in this work level, but that should be talked with the students in the sense of showing the all it is important for the discussions, the theoretical fundamentação and the sources fidedígnas.

In this stage of the project, some students are already making its choices with relationship to the theme that you/they want to study more aprofundadamente, and it is waited, starting from that, that they pass the disponibilizar way information scientifically correct.

Ana Cristina Camargo (Evaluation)

This document went based on to analysis of and-mails changed among the students in the 2 and December 3, 99

List Summary Dec. 2 and 3, 1999

English - Translator version