Organization of the colony
Children and old in the colony?
- The one that I think of relationship the children is that is exactly their fact non têrem it lies, ideas and formed moral identity that turn them more flexible than an adult. I don't know they are had a great difference in ordering children and they be born there. But perhaps in first moment, like you he/she said, we could order few adults, so that they have several children. Oh yes those children would have very more adaptation easiness. Without speaking in the transport easiness of here for Mars, that would be much easier with 20 people than with 100.
- I still find better the children they to be born there than they already go born. And I also find that 20 people are a very low number to sustain a colony. Imagine that will be necessary cientists (for research), engineers (all the branches for maintenance and construction of the vials, modules and plantations), doctors, psychologists, physical and etc. Everybody should go by physical and psychological rigorous tests before they leave.
- I don't agree with Avishek regarding the first colonists. I don't think seniors should be correspondents, mainly for its physical weakness. Think of the problems of health that can have and that can result in difficulties and even not foreseen deaths. However, it would be important the presence of old because they possess life experiences that can aid the colony in the resolution of some problems. But I still think they should not be correspondents.
- With relationship the children, if we don't take them, we would owe therefore to give preference marries it that don't have children or single people. I don't know we can be taken 20 people as Pita suggested but I think should respect the orders and to take the 100 people foreseen in the beginning of the project.
- Foreseen him in I begin it of the project it was a colony for 100 people. It was not mentioned that those 100 people would have to come of the earth. If we just took 50 people (I agree, 20 are very a little) and of 50 o'clock, 25 women are already pregnant of twins. Ready! 100 people.
- Really, Jecel, thinks is well for oh the reality of the colony. The children are more adaptive. Alias, I think are the only ones adaptive. I don't believe that adults would adapt to the atmosphere of the colony, even with the arduous work of some psychologists and etc... Good, as the children are traumatizadas, I don't know.... I will inform myself and I order a message for the list again.
- I spoke to my sister that is a psychologist, and perhaps be interesting to share the vision of somebody of that area. According to her, it is practically impossible an adult, that he/she has already lived in the earth, to adapt to the colony, even if those people are voluntary. The most serious problem q disturbs the adaptation it is the fact that never again they will go back to the Earth. If we just ordered some couples and those had children, everything would be easier. The parents would have an extra reason (and very strong) to adapt: the maternal instinct. He/she is the children, born in marte, they would not have great problems for of adaptation. Will it be that those children would be traumatizadas? The problem that those children would face would be the terrestrial memories kept in the collective unconscious (Jung). Those memories certainly would be very contrasting to the conditions of the colony. That could cause some problem of psychological fund, but anything
very serious, if compared the people that already lived in the Earth. The ideal inhabitants would be Monday or third generation of Martian children, because the terrestrial memories would be much subtler. And oh, what do you find?
Professions in the colony
- To mine to see, we should not only " take in general intellectuals ". As it happens here in the Earth all the professions they are interrelacionadas. There is not simple or less important profession, I think everybody is equally important.
Vial - material
- Nowadays they exist many materials of the aerospace technology that can be used for the vial with more efficiency than the pirex and the steel. This last one for example becomes brittle with the high thermal width of Mars, that can bring serious problems for the colony. Did he/she already think if this vial split? It is necessary to also think that the precise vial to be built of insulating material to maintain the temperature it interns stable. With relationship to the buildings that he/she mentioned, in my opinion that is a little complicated because of the presence of winds in marte (144km/h), depending on their height, they should be staked exactly in the Martian soil as he/she makes himself here. This I am processed it would turn very onerous. For that I already suggest the modules mentioned by Airton.
- Pay attention that this material of which us this speaking is the glass. Materials that dilate less than the glass exist (as the pirex). AND the vial won't be alone of glass (or derived). I was thinking of doing a structure of iron or steel with glass among the " columns ". Without saying that the whole colony won't be alone a vial. I would be thinking at a " building ", where they would be the bedrooms and the laboratories and a vial in the covering of that construction. What do you find?
Fontes of energy
- I think the energy geotérmica would be the ideal in Mars because there they don't lack native volcanos (it increases the safety and the stability) and the maintenance cost and of implantação it is low, and he/she still has a reasonable productivity. Regarding nuclear energy, the technology is recent... .mas that matters is that the technology already exists! I will give a more thoroughly researched in that (it is that I, up to now, didn't get to obtain anything on such `Tório `, if somebody can help me ...agradeceria!). he/she Sees the case of the energy geotérmica... we were afraid of using it for still non manuzeármos a lot, and we ended up discovering that she is extremely used at two countries!
- My only one doubts it was in relation to the active or inactive volcanos, but now that I received the confirmation that active volcanos still exist in marte, I defend the idea that the energy geotérmica would be a great alternative source.
The subject of the water in the planet Mars
- I was thinking that instead of the colonists to be melting water, it would be better than the water was always recycled, that nor in that film Waterworld, because the resources of water, in spite of they be big, they are not limitless. (the reference of this information was not placed about amount of water in Mars, the one which non condiz with the reality)
- I think the distribution of water will be made by means of tubes, faucet, bombs and things of the gender.
The official language of the colony
- I was thinking of English ...alguma nation he/she also has that `Sofrer ` with the difficulty of the language, and nowadays the Englishwoman is the most universal... .além of the plus, I don't know if you/he/she is very difficult to find oriental nowadays with fluent English good ...seria, or at least advisable, that the inhabitants already had some I link strong with the language, to avoid to the maximum the communication difficulties....
- To use English as the first language of the " Martians " should be everything that
do United States want certain? However, it will be that the world really wants that that happens?? on who does Everything depend it will finance the project. If it goes well the USA everything, the world doesn't have to do anything with that but if several States are financing the project, perhaps we should opt for Esperanto (with certainty the Russians and Chinese won't like anything to submit the American language). it is very probable that that thought is incorrect. Please, correct it goes like this him.
- I didn't also want that a colony in Mars, representing `Glorioso´ Homo sapiens spoke English. But we don't have as denying that is a language
reasonably diffused nowadays, and it is not so difficult of learning. But, reading its message, I remembered a thing.... My sister has a Japanese friend (she doesn't speak Portuguese), that was learning English. When that friend of her met the Portuguese, it found much easier q English, because there is not great phonetic variation of the same letter, as in English. (what hindered English's understanding) it would Be interesting to know the oriental opinion... I am going
to give a researched and I answer of turn... But I think Esperanto is better yes.
The plants in Mars
- We have to research the plants that consume little oxygen and they make a lot of photosynthesis, and still to know the as of energy it is necessary to dissociate the dióxido of carbon...
The Garbage in the Colony
- Do I also think the non organic garbage should be accumulated in Martian soil and who is known in the future him not and recycled by the own colony? I also thought if the organic garbage could not be used as fertilizer for the plantations, taking into account that the original soil should have been manipulated
- Had he/she thought the same thing that you to get to eliminate the garbage and did to produce energy ...mas Jecel remind me at the same time that, to burn the biogás, will precise oxygen be, that meets at 0,13% in the Martian atmosphere ...então it will be necessary you save it a little ...mas if we the conclusion that the production of oxygen won't be so difficult and expensive arrive, mine to see, would a good alternative be the biodigestores, do they put, me solemnity correcting, for the production of little energy ...O that you find?
- The organic part of the garbage could be used in the production of the biogás. This could be used as fuel of cars (if he/she has that there). Now with the non organic part it is problem.
The settlers' emotional subject
- Added the problems of the station to the problems of food and etc, I think nobody will tolerate to live there. Still more if there was not turn perspective. It is as if we were the rest of our lives confined in a cage with bad food and bad air... That is a serious problem, that I think nor a `Seleção´ of candidates with a reasonable emotional balance would solve.
Clues and general comments
Teachers
- Very well reminded Carlo Rubia's work. Besides him to be Nobel is a pacifist and humanist. He was one of the faces that more they worried about the accident in Chernobil. You could pass the reference of Estadão. It could take advantage of and to give an olhadinha in the Web on the subject. In case we decide that the best form of obtaining energy is for the nuclear road it is important to try to discover which is easier to take to Mars of the types of reactors. Remember that he should go ready.
Airton
- Are you going for the right road in the discussions, but will it be that are using the right terms? The problem in Mars, and in Space Shuttle, is low pressure or does it lower gravity... or the two? Be sure that you are using the correct unit, or else it will be confused.
Cristiana
- Have just published the third report of evaluation of teacher Ana Cristina's project. I suggest strongly (that is not an invitation, it is intimation) that everybody reads (it is in the session HOW - Progress Reports) for they see where we are up to now in our discussions, what lacks for the data they be considered trustworthy. We avoid like this of repeating some subjects. I also become intimate them the they already begin to organize its groups, for they begin to already synthesize all the information discussed and they already go thinking of the presentation that you/they will do. Use the forum for now they work in way more focalizada, and each group already to go researching more pertinent data to its objective (he/she remembers the questions you specify that each Team has to answer.... he/she sees session What).
Cristiana
- A thing came me the mind: energy eólica - >moinhos <-> winds <-> dust lubrication.
Airton
- Inhabitants x growth of the colony = facilities modulate. Think of that.
Airton
- Thinking mainly of level of vegetables, we should remind that exist
sun " plants ", shade " plants " and indifferent plants ...lembra? do The one of sun possess a great of photosynthesis in high luminous intensities when compared with those of shade. Thus, the luminous intensity interferes in the rate fotossintética of many you vegetate. But it is not just this the factor limitante. They exist other... As the floração, plants exist in the daytime long, plants in the daytime short and you plant indifferent... he/she Sees this part of the botany study in second schoolboy's books (Amabis, Cesar and Sezar, among other). we will research that type of plants could try to take for Mars...
Ana Cristina.
- To find a rubber that doesn't become brittle for -50C (or worse) it would not be easy. Another option e' to divide the cupula in sections - dividing in ten parts separated by a rubber or something like that) we would have a variation of size of just 1mm in each part. If somebody is thinking " it can be that that do the windows of the small " airplanes, it can be about imagining another thing because a problem exists *bem * more I seriate oh.
Jecel
Students
1. with relationship to the growth of the colony with passing of the years, I think she owes
to be built relatively in a size big to shelter the current inhabitants and more I begin it of a future generation. Nothing impedes that this colony suffers maintenance (structural growth) on the part of the terráqueos to every 50 years for example. And as the individuality, I think it is essential for the inhabitants to have highly personalized retreats, that in spite of resulting in high costs. It will be an important factor to reduce internal conflicts. I found curious that mentioned on Space Shuttle.
2. we would need 394,5 KJ to dissociate 1 mol of molecules of CO2. It is a high amount but if we get to do with that the plants reach a high one to can " fotossintético ", we would not need to worry in continuing " to break " molecules of CO2, because the plants would make that for us.
3. I think won't need to seek in book some because I remembered the wonderful class that you gave in our class. In the Earth, the concentration of CO2 is of 0,03% of the volume of the atmosphere. Such concentration is very inferior to the one that the plant would be capable to use. In conditions temperature ideas and brightness, the photosynthesis rate increases progressively in function of the increase in the concentration of CO2 in the air, until reaching about 0,3%. to leave you give, increases in the concentration of CO2 stop producing increase I correlate in the photosynthesis rate. A doubt that I remembered went to following: is there some way to elevate the power fotossintético of a plant being in the limit of the concentration of CO2?
4. a " city " exists in the Alaska call Barrow whose operation is quite different from which are accustomed... I will inform myself a little more on her.
5. the " alaskianos " should really be one of the people that more we should have
attention in the colonists' summons if not forgetting of course them
they should still go by the battery of psychological tests.
Questions that appeared in this stage
1. why should the nuclear reactors go ready for Mars?
2. which are the objectives of this colony exactly?
3. the one what is that the colonists will do with whole the garbage and residues that produce? They have to produce a minimum amount of garbage no-reciclável, and for that the whole production structure and of consumption he/she would have to be returned to that.
4. should we maintain the intensity of the illumination the same to the one of the Earth? Should we light up during the same duration of the day of the terra(cerca of 30 minutes unless the one of Mars)? does THE duration of the day interfere in the internal cycles of the body (how that circadiano)?
5. which will the foreseen rate of growth populacional be? How to supply this growth in space terms, victuals, infrastructure, etc? You really made me to think in that with its placements. (Cristiana Assumpção)
6. still not this checked what water exists not in the Martian underground and even? I am speaking about that because Avishek said that the resources of water are abundant.
7. as it will be the distribution of water in the vial, do I say, will he/she have a `Mini-sea `, or some thing of the type?
8. is there some way to elevate the power fotossintético of a plant being in the limit of the concentration of CO2?
9. don't I know if the procedure is correct but for the what did I understand the plants they only accomplish photosynthesis to the right day? If we placed artificial lights creating a supposed " day " when is night actually, do those vegetate perhaps they continue to accomplish photosynthesis certain? But that would not increase the capacity to accomplish photosynthesis but yes the period for which she extends. What do I make?
10. The political organization of the " alaskianos " is enviable. Do they have great citizenship feeling and healthy really resistant to the cold... would not they be inhabitants in potential for our colony?
11. Would the osteoporose problems already appear there even in Mars or only when they to return the Earth (with larger gravity and pressure)? Because if they will be eternally in to colony and do the problems only appear in the turn for the Earth, necessary so much zeal be not perhaps like this for you combat it...
12. Really the one what will they make with the garbage non reciclável? As well as they didn't still discover any bacteria in the Martian soil he difficultly would decompose out of the vial. To burn or to use to manufacture biogás thinks would not also give right because it could consume our limited resources of oxygen. You send it for the Earth, Sun, etc. he/she would leave very expensive. Then I think the easiest exit and cockroach would be you leave accumulating it in the same Martian soil. Mars has plenty of unoccupied space that coulded not you shelter it. But I don't know if that is the best exit. Then why not to take with the crew, microorganisms terráqueos decompositores?
Task passed for the students
- For those that will travel and they want to take something on Mars, starting from next week I will already be with the five volumes of the book that I showed for you in the presentation (Thiago, yours is here also). I Already bought the books, that are at the library for tombamento.
Airton
Sites indicated in this stage
http://zebu.uoregon.edu/1999/phys161.html
http://ppioneer.listbot.com
http://zebu.uoregon.edu/1996/ph162/overview.html
General evaluation of this stage of the project
A. pedagogic Evaluation of the process
In this stage of the project, larger amount of references of sources was expected researched on the part of the participants, but it is observed that the groundless abstraction and the imagination still reign in discussions. The largest questionamento of the students to the teachers involved in the projects can be a consequence of the collection of references on the participants. It seems to exist a resistance before the autonomous search of information and knowledge, fact that it deserves larger attention.
Being compared this report with the three previous, it can be verified that the number of general subjects decreases of the first for the second report, staying practically constant starting from this moment, as exhibition graph below. It is important to notice that the number of answers to these subjects stayed very low, indicating little research and a lot of curiosity on the part of the group.
With relationship to the orientations done by the teachers to the students, it
is noticed a significant increase in the number of clues and reflections
addressed the participants of the report 1 at the 4, which were not answered
until December 11, date of conclusion of this document.
B. THE general organization of the colony
A clear concern exists mainly in to select who it should go to Mars, in the
case of including or non children. From the first discussions, the settlers'
psychological part has been considered enough.
In the relative part to the official language of the colony, the appeared
comments showed certain negatividade as English's adoption, once the colony
would be universal.
In the relative subject the source of energy, larger acceptance expectation
exists among energy geotérmica and nuclear, once these two were the more
mentioned until the moment. The other sources of energy seem to have been
discarded, but for reasons not yet justified scientifically.
It is noticed in the atmosphere part and atmosphere of Mars the concern in
understanding each other the process fotossintético of the vegetables better,
in the sense of her to try to guarantee a good level of oxygen in the colony,
inside the vials.
The subject of the material that will compose the vial this being discussed
with base in more data, even so of research sources not yet mentioned by the
participants.
In this stage of the project, they didn't happen discussions on the relative
subjects the econômia, politics, laws, location and transports of the colony,
lifted in previous stages.
Ana Cristina Camargo.